Next Level Podcast with Doug Sandler E41

I met Doug Sandler with Turnkey Podcast Production as I was trying to figure out what to do next with my podcast.  I had published around 30 episodes and wanted to take it to the next level.  Now just a few short months later my podcast is making money and I’ve discovered a number of new ways to grow and monetize.  Yes you can make money with your podcast.  Doug is an entrepreneur and a podcast industry leader. He has built a community of podcasters that share and support each other. In today’s episode we talk about everything podcast, should you start one, how to get started, where the industry is going, and my favorite, can you make money with a podcast.  I hope you enjoy our chat….

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Doug Sandler
Podcast Industry Leader

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In this episode we explore…..


03:00 – Nice Guys on Business Podcast

4:00 – Starting a podcast

5:45 – 3.5 million podcast downloads……

6:15 – Big fish in a small pond

8:25 – It’s not about the downloads

11:55 – It’s all about the problem you solve

14:00 – Sell it and then create it

15:15 – Deliver what your customers want

16:30 – Should you launch a podcast?

18:15 – Launch a podcast in 6 weeks

20:15 – Can you make money with a podcast?

23:30 – Podcast sponsorship

25:30 – Is it too late to start a podcast?

27:05 – Podcast to build your business

29:30 – Free give away – podcasting toolkit

More about Doug Sandler

Phone: (410) 340-6861


Doug Sandler is an entrepreneur and podcast industry leader. His book, Nice Guys Finish First is a #1 ranked Amazon Best Seller.  As a podcast host of The Nice Guys on Business, Doug has interviewed, Gary V, Arianna Huffington, John C. Maxwell and dozens of celebs. Doug is a nationally recognized speaker, writer, and founder of TurnKey Podcast Productions, providing podcast production, editing and launch services. His Nice Guys podcast, with over 1,000 episodes has been downloaded 3.5 million times, in more than 175 countries.

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Ben 0:02
Welcome to the Breakaway Entrepreneur podcast where master business coach Janet Fish and her special guests explore the characteristics and traits that lead entrepreneurs to success. Get ready for real conversations of what it takes to overcome real challenges and break away from your competition. here’s your host, Janet Fish.

Janet Fish 0:26
Thanks, Ben. Now a word from our sponsor Ross Rushton if you’re considering purchasing a new home and want a complimentary 30 minute pre approval consultation, text the word home loan to 4087996853 Ross Rushton is a California licensed loan officer with fairway independent mortgage, and he’s awesome. I’ve spoken in the last couple of weeks to a number of folks who have been furloughed, or they’re out of work, or they’re just worried that their jobs will never come back. And I get it. If you’re one of those, you’re really not alone. If you’ve ever considered starting your own business, I’m here to help you. I’ve helped over 1000 clients build successful businesses with my proven step by step process. Get started today building your own successful business. You literally can have a business up and running in a couple of weeks, following my proven five step plan. And guess what, you don’t have to invest anything to get started. That’s right. You can start your business with no money. Go To www dot breakaway business slash five steps right now. What have you got to lose? It’s absolutely free. I met Doug Sandler with turnkey podcast production. As I was trying to figure out what to do next with my podcast. I had published around 30 episodes, and I wanted to take it to the next level. Now, just a few short months later, my podcast is making money. And I’ve discovered a number of new ways to grow and monetize it. Yes, you really can make money with your podcast. Doug is an entrepreneur and a podcast industry leader. He has built a community of podcasters that share and support each other. In today’s episode, we talk about everything podcast should just start one, how to get started, where the industry is going. And my favorite, you can make money with a podcast. I hope you enjoy our chat. Good afternoon, breakaway entrepreneurs. This is Janet Fish with the breaker entrepreneur podcast. And today I’m super excited. Well, I’m always excited about my guests. But today I get a little extra excitement. Because today I’m talking to Doug Sandler. And I’ll tell you a little bit about him in a second. But my excitement comes from as I was just telling him pre show. I rarely get to interview people who subject line is so interesting and compelling to me. So I get to pick his brain and I’m super excited about it. So welcome, Doug.

Doug Sandler 2:51
Well, thanks, Janet. Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here too.

Janet Fish 2:54
Yeah, I’m it this is this is super exciting for me. All right. So let me tell you a little bit about Doug. Doug is an entrepreneur, and podcast industry leader. His book nice guys finish first is a number one ranked Amazon best seller. As a podcast host of the nice guys on business. Doug has interviewed Gary Vee, Arianna Huffington Jhansi, Maxwell and dozens of celebs. Doug is a nationally recognized speaker, writer and founder of turnkey podcast productions, providing podcast production, editing and Launch Services. His nice guy’s podcast with over 1000 episodes has been downloaded 3.5 million times in more than 175 countries. I mean, that is awesome. Welcome, Doug.

Doug Sandler 3:41
Thank you, Janet. I’m excited to be here and humbled by your your kind words in the in the the intro was written just as my read just as my mom had written it. So thank you.

Janet Fish 3:52
Well, it’s impressive for sure. So let’s just start out by an eye and I want to know, but let’s just start off by when and how did you get into podcasting?

Doug Sandler 4:03
It was completely out of desperation. It’s in 2013 I wanted to reinvent my career. I had spent 30 years as a as a bar mitzvah MC, believe it or not in the Washington DC marketplace. And making the transition out of that career was challenging for me because I had so much experience in it and I was literally making an amazing living one day a week but I really felt like I had made a significant impact on the world. So I wanted to make that transition boy did I know my timing was perfect and doing that and getting out of the live events industry seven or eight years before COVID struck had a chance in 2013. To start the reinvention became a professional speaker started focusing on building a business of teaching people how the insides and outs of customer service and sales training and made a really good career in that and when I wrote my book in 2015 called nice guys finish first. I was looking for a way to promote it. So I say out of desperation just tongue in cheek because I did it Want to spend the money that I would need to have needed to on a publicist or PR company there, you know, 2500 to $5,000 every month to promote something, and I’m like, hey, this thing called podcasts and it’s getting kind of popular, I might want to jump into this and try. So I talked to a buddy of mine, Strickland, who was represented in a band, by the same agency that represented my DJ business. And we started this thing called the nice guys on business podcast. And the rest is history. My career as a speaker went well, but as a Podcast Producer was even better, because people were asking me more or more oftentimes about, Hey, can you teach me how to launch a podcast? Rather than, Hey, can you come out and talk to my organization about customer service? So I guess, I guess it came out of the response to my community of getting involved in podcasting.

Janet Fish 5:44
So it’s interesting how the universe kind of leads us in directions that we never even think about. And like, 100% Yeah, I think there’s a lot of people experiencing that. Right now, if they’re letting themselves let the universe in rather than get out of all that fear and stuckness that they might be in and let the universe kind of guide them to, to something that new and exciting. So So I love that. How did you get your podcast? So I got it. You’ve been doing a long time. You’ve got 1000 episodes? How did you get your podcast to 33 point 5 million episodes downloaded?

Doug Sandler 6:20
Geez. Well, the crazy part about that is that you know, when you’re on iTunes, which was or Apple podcast now it was just iTunes before a year, a very small fish in a huge pond. And what was happening was, we noticed that we were getting some downloads from this platform called overcast. And I had never heard of overcast at the time. But it was it’s another podcast player, it’s just an app just like just like apple. And we discovered we were liking the top, I don’t know, let’s just call it the top 20 of overcast business shows which is a really highly coveted category, because it includes things like NPR and Tim Ferriss, and Tony Robbins, and all the big names. And so we thought, hey, if we really put all of our energy into promoting ourselves on overcast, we can become a, a big fish in a small pond rather than a small fish in a big pond on Apple podcast. And that’s exactly what we did. And we drove hard and getting everybody that was listening on overcast, to rate and review us or at least rate us, which is a star on overcast. And so we quickly rose to the top of that chart, because no one was paying attention to overcast they were all paying attention to Apple podcasts and those other shows. So for us, we just kept saying promote, promote, promote, please review us and we became the number one business show on overcast for probably close to a year. And what was great about that was the higher we were ranked the more exposure we had. So it kept feeding into itself. And we started to notice that our download numbers were going from, you know, they were going from like a foul 100 downloads an episode or really, we started at seven downloads an episode, so within seven to 10 to 100 in a few months. And then within 17 months, 18 months, we had about 20,000 downloads, which is good. But this is when it really took off because that’s when we really started to lean heavily in overcast we went from in the same time it took us to get to 20,000, we went to a million on overcast. And then from the same time it took us to go to a million we went to two and then three and then and then close to 4 million where we are now. Which is it’s incredible. So it was just understanding what we had our hands on even when we didn’t realize what we had our hands on.

Janet Fish 8:26
Yeah, that’s that’s great looking at four different ways to promote. So you’re not competing against all the other guys that are in the apple podcast, like you said. So that’s awesome and amazing. But a lot of us aren’t there. And you talk a lot about don’t focus on the numbers, right? Don’t focus on the number of downloads, but just really focus on it. What did you said something that I thought was so brilliant and made me feel so much better? When I look at my downloads? Like you said I’d rather have 35 people who listened to every episode and are dedicated to my podcast, then to have 10,000 people who aren’t so talk, talk to us, give us some Yeah, some, you know, some idea of what really to look at and, and give us some hope for those of us who don’t have 3.5 million downloads. Yeah,

Doug Sandler 9:18
and and I and I appreciate you saying that. And this is really where I stressed that the numbers aren’t aren’t a value at all. I mean, we had a highly unengaged audience of you know, of several thousand people every episode that we’re listening to our our podcasts, but we couldn’t get them to do anything. They weren’t engaged and which is why we got to a million downloads and made exactly zero dollars. We had no money coming in the door. And so what I always tell my new clients is you can’t take a download to Wells Fargo and cash it and the reality of that is that downloads aren’t worth a hill of beans if you can’t convert your audience members into actually a known entity which was getting them to give you their name and their email address so you can actually market stuff to them that they that they Want. So when it comes down to it, I’d much rather have an audience of 50 that show up every week that are highly engaged in an audience of 50,000 that aren’t doing anything. And it really doesn’t take more than a handful of people in your community if there’s hope for those podcasters that are getting 10 and 20 and 50 downloads an episode. The reality of that is that it only took one of our community members out of probably those thousands, one community member reached out his name is Lou Diamond. I don’t know if you’ve even met Lou, where I’ve brought you might have heard his name, he mentioned it before. But lou is in our community. And he came to us through our community. And he said, hey, look, I know you’re a professional speaker. I know you’re an author. I know all these things that you do. And that stuff is great. But I don’t want any of that. Can you teach me how to do what you’ve done with your podcast? I said, okay, but and I was honest, I said, Lou, I’ve never done this with me. But before, I have no idea how much to charge you. And I don’t know, really, I don’t really have it documented. So if you’ll help me create that system, then I will absolutely try to change, you know, charge, you know, train you to do that. And so we spent six months, I think at 500 bucks a month, so about $3,000 to launch his podcast and go through the process. It does, it doesn’t take 1000 people in your community to say, hey, help me, it just takes one and it takes you listening to what they’re asking you to do. You know, if you’re a podcaster, and you keep throwing products at your community, and you’re like, Hey, I’m a professional speaker. Silence Oh, hey, I’m an author and silencer result selling a couple of books, or, hey, I’m a coach. And they don’t, they don’t respond to that. You’ve got that at some point, say, who’s the fool here, you know, the community for not reaching out because I’m so amazing. And all this other stuff. And my ego was so much in the way that I’m like, Oh, well, they have to buy this because this is the stuff I’ve created. Instead, ask your community what they want. Somebody will tell you what they want, and they will buy it from you. Because they’re listening. They come every every time you put out an episode, why wouldn’t they want to hear more from you?

Janet Fish 12:00
Absolutely. I mean, it’s all about I always say it’s all about finding the problem that people have, that you can solve. And for a lot of us, well, I won’t say us because I’m, I’m still doing kind of what I was doing before COVID. But for a lot of people that are my clients, they’re looking to find new problems to solve. Because the problems that what they were solving before either they can’t solve, because I can’t do it. Or some of those, those problems have changed. So I think it’s really important. And it’s like I said, I will say again, I just love the fact that you didn’t you didn’t say okay, I’m going to go out and I’m going to launch a company producing podcasts, right?

Doug Sandler 12:37
The challenge is that so many people come into this world and and the online space for that matter, the online space is one where if you are not responsive, you will not get any, if you’re not responsive to your community, they absolutely will not respond to you. So why would you want to come into it with the idea of here are the seven things that I have on my plate, like every online course that we’ve created, has been created, because somebody in our community says, This is what we want, and then they come out, they come closer to you by giving you their name and their email address, they come closer to you by spending $1, even $1 is a is a is a you know, a show of trust. So they spend $1 with you and you’ve created a small program or you’ve given them a freebie for for nothing. And you build that know like and trust factor until you figure out what it is that they want through asking you put masterclasses together, you create online courses based upon coaching calls that you’ve done, like we have done, you know, on using our podcast Launch Formula, there are so many ways that you can do it without having to create this, this arsenal of content that is that cost you time, money energy, you’re going to respond to your community, it’s it’s a matter of whether you do it correctly or not respond to them with the stuff that they want. And you will succeed respond to them with the stuff that you want. And the chances are slim that you’re going to succeed because you’re only one person in the you know, many that are going to be listening.

Janet Fish 14:03
Yeah. And I think too many people get caught up and I’m going to go produce all my products and things and then I’m going to launch. Yeah, other than I mean, the best way to do it, which we’ve all done, sell something and then go and create it. I mean, I’ve done that a lot. Like

Doug Sandler 14:20
it’s ultra scary as an entrepreneur to to think about product creation, being a visionary, being an innovator coming up with a product based upon what your community wants selling it and then like oh my god, I got to come up with a deliverable now. But out nine times out of 10 if you don’t do it that way, you won’t succeed at bringing your product to marketplace so you may as well listen to them understand that you’re going to be bad before you’re good over deliver to them. So don’t over promise under promise over deliver. And and that’s the beauty of it. You know, it’s like when you guys hopped into our ultimate podcast launch or your next level podcasting, we kind of made the program up as we were going along based upon We knew that you guys were saying, Hey, we want this. And so we’ve created other products, and we’ve created modules and, and videos and, and downloadable documents and all this stuff that you guys were asking us for it. And that’s truly the best way to go cuz we know you want it.

Janet Fish 15:16
Yeah, I was just gonna plug that I was gonna say I mean, I found you because I didn’t go through the ultimate ultimate podcast Launch Formula. Sorry, I wish I had because it would have saved me probably months and months and months. But I found you because I was looking for what am I going to do with my podcast next level? And I could tell because I create content and all of that, that it was created because of the need. And then you just went and created it. Because every week, what do those guys need this week? Okay, we better sit down and create the content. And that’s the, that’s the smart way to do it. And it’ll grow as we give you more feedback on and you know, I’m the first one to be given your feedback. So

Doug Sandler 15:57
I know and you’re and you’re wonderful, it’s great, because, you know, you’re the inspiration for for many of the things that come next, you know, next level podcast and came as a result of, we’ve put almost 200 people through our podcast Launch Formula, and at the end of that they now have a podcast, and everybody was like, hmm, now what? You know, it’s like, okay, they can create content. But now what Okay, monetization, guest management, you know, influence building those things are the key elements in how to actually take this thing that you’ve created, and become successful with it.

Janet Fish 16:31
Yeah, so I want to talk about that a little bit more. But my question, and I’m sure there’s a ton of people out there listening. So my question is, launch a podcast, why or why not.

Doug Sandler 16:43
So the online space right now is pretty crowded, and the podcasting space, while you may think it’s crowded and may think you have, there’s no room because there’s all this competition and for you. That’s just not, that’s, that’s a myth. You know, there’s plenty of room for everybody, you know, even even as podcast producers are friends with each other, because we help promote each other’s programs, because, honestly, only 2% of the people on my list are ever going to buy from me. So I may as well share my list with somebody else so that we can either make an affiliate commission or we just support everybody a rising tide, right, you know, raises all ships. So for me, podcasting is a great way, it’s a great tool for business development, lead generation, it’s a great way to introduce yourself to JV partners, it’s a great way for you to discover what it is that your community wants. And if you want to become an influencer in a space in that particular industry, I can’t think of a better way to do that than through podcasting, especially when you’re when we’re all at home right now, you know, nobody’s out having meetings and pressing flesh, nobody’s doing that right now. So you may as well have a high visibility piece. And you can do it through podcasting, it doesn’t have to cost you an arm and a leg either, which is why we’ve created some of our, you know, our more automated systems and our group coaching as opposed to one on one coaching for some of this because we brought it to a level where pretty much anybody can be a podcaster if you have the desire and you have the business or even if you don’t have the business but have the desire, we can work out the tools you don’t even have to be a have a specific industry in mind, we can make you or help make you an expert in any industry that you want to be an expert in, just by the the strategy that we’ll put into play.

Janet Fish 18:21
So talk talk about how you help, because how you help entrepreneurs launch a podcast, and I wanted to your horn in that. It’s a what, six week program. So I start with nothing. And in six weeks, I’m launching a podcast.

Doug Sandler 18:38
Yeah, and really only four of those weeks or weeks that you’re actually doing any kind of work, we just give you a little rest before before launch time because we know that there’s still going to be work after FDA launches show. I think the critical element in launching a podcast is many people are held back just by things like, Hey, I don’t have to understand technology, or I don’t have a personality. So I’m not really sure how I’m going to host a show or or you know, I don’t have a big list already. So what am I supposed to do? Where am I going to find my list or I don’t have a product to sell or one that I think a community is going to buy. So what am I supposed to do. And so the first thing that we do is we have to get into your brain and reduce those limiting beliefs that hold you back from starting a podcast. Then before we can even get to where you are, which is at this next level. Okay, now I have a podcast now what we’ve got to build the podcast. So we’ve got to build the shell of the show, we’ve got to create this thing we call a template, which consists of things like your podcast title, your cover art, your show description, in your opening your clothes, your royalty free music, we’ve got to connect you with iTunes and Apple podcasts and other sources. We’ve got to get you a hosting source so that you have the technology behind you. We have to teach you about the equipment and how to learn how to use a microphone. I mean, those are critical elements. And if you let the fact that you don’t have a community, get in the way of that, you know, building the podcast thing, it’s like you’ll never get started. So we always tell people just get out of your own way for a moment. Put that stuff on the shelf and less Just work on some of the mechanics, that other stuff, the actual success part that will come in the next phase, that success of building an audience building a product, building influence, all of that stuff comes next. But we can’t do any of that stuff without the shell or the template of your show.

Janet Fish 20:17
Yeah, and I would say that I was shocked at how much I mean out how much fun this is. I mean, I knew that it would be good. And I did it because I want to expand my reach, and, you know, all the things that you had talked about, but I had no idea it was gonna be first of all, as fun as it is. And then it wasn’t until I met you through next level podcasting that I really realized that I could make money with it, right. I mean, I’ve made money with sponsors, and I’ve obviously gotten some clients from it, but I’m now promoting products. And so I mean, it’s just, it is just absolutely amazing. So but I do want to touch on that, that, that phrase, or that, that idea of monetization, because people want, people either think, I’m going to start a podcast, and all this money’s gonna come in, or they think I’m gonna start a podcast, and I have no idea if I’ve ever gonna make any money from it. So I love you’ve got some, you’ve got some types of monetization. So talk a little bit about that. So people understand that they can make money from the podcast.

Doug Sandler 21:16
Yeah. And there’s a couple dozen ways that you can actually make money via podcasting, the first way that we really work on because I realized after we started our podcast, and we started to make money, and we, we kind of skipped all of the smaller money, meaning the thousand dollars in the 500 bucks, and we went right to the 20 and $30,000. Mark, because we’re like, we’ve got to figure this out. It took us almost two years to figure that part out. But we realized after we put your group through the next level podcasting side of things, it is not certainly it’s great to have the 10 and 20 and $30,000 winds from your show. But man, how cool is it to see that first dollar come in the door? And how cool is it to be able to see that first 250 or 500, or $1,000. So now, instead of just focusing on the 10, and $20,000 wins, which have a longer tail, you know, takes a little bit longer to get there, we want to focus on the immediate win, how can we get you in a position where let’s say your podcast after you’re all in and maybe hired an editing company or a VA to do some stuff, and you got a social media person, or maybe you’re doing it all yourself and just paying, you know, 50 or 100 bucks to have your show out if I could show you a 50 or $100 win and now you’re in the black as opposed to being in the red now all the sudden the pressure is all for for from your I had a conversation with somebody yesterday. And she was like we’ve been podcasting for seven years, cost us about $250 a month to have our show, you know produce our show because they’re doing most of the stuff in house. And she’s like, and in seven years, we’ve never made any money and we get about 50,000 downloads every month. So first thing it goes off in my head is you have a totally unengaged community as their your or your have a call to action that isn’t working, or you have no call to action. So aside from going that direction, I tell everybody, let’s just get you a win. Let’s find a sponsor for you. Maybe for a couple of episodes, just so you can see what if the door and if I can show somebody how to get 500 or 1000. Now, if I show them how to do it twice. Now they say oh, I’ve done it once. That was by luck. If I’ve done it twice, I’ve kind of got something going when you do it three and four times and you then do it consistently. It’s something that’s duplicatable, and you can do it very often. And that’s pretty cool to be in the black and to be profitable, not just be in the black a little bit. But even if it’s a few hundred bucks, or a couple thousand dollars a month, that’s a pretty cool little bit of income to be sitting on with a podcast.

Janet Fish 23:37
Yeah, and one of the things that came out of that I ended up with five, as I mentioned, five sponsors, which I would have never even thought of I went back to this previous guests, and then a couple of other people what one of the things that came out of it that I didn’t anticipate, and I’m super happy about it, the strengthening of my relationship with those five people who now have given me money to show up on my show. But now they are committed to my show like they are part of the show. And I never even thought about the power of that until I engage these people as sponsors. And now they’re like they’re part of the show. And so I don’t know if you’ve ever experienced that with with the sponsors that you’ve been working with.

Doug Sandler 24:19
Absolutely. When somebody is invested in you invested in sponsorship, they’re invested in the results as well. They want to get an ROI from what they’re putting their money into. So while I would love to say that I will promote, promote, promote for everybody that comes on the show just as heartily as I promote for those that that have that have sponsored the show. So the people that invest in in sponsorship are the ones that are most invested in the promotion of that episode. It’s very rare that somebody would just sit back and say, hey, I’ve sponsored your show. What are you going to do for me now they want to help too. And if I give them the tools that they need to help me, then they’ll promote it. So yes, I I find the same thing that people that are invested in the sponsorship side 500 or 1000, or 1500. dollars to sponsor our show. They’re the ones that really helped get it out the most. And I can see it in the results. If I look at my numbers and forget the download numbers, but just look at the chart. The chart is those that sponsor promote more of their episodes. So it’s like, hey, I’d love to get everybody to sponsor it. And and I can show you, you know, on a on a, on a graph, those that sponsor actually have better results with, you know, with with popularity of their episodes.

Janet Fish 25:35
Yeah, yeah. So I have two questions for you. One is, where do you see the podcast industry going?

Doug Sandler 25:41
Well, we’re just at our infancy right now, when I started, you know, almost six years ago, we were still at her infancy and I thought it was too late. At that point, you know, john Lee Dumas and Pat Flynn where we’re getting millions of downloads for the episodes. Tim Ferriss was just getting underway. And, and I’m like, man, I think I’m too late for this. And, you know, if I think about the numbers, there are a billion blogs billion with a BS show. There’s a billion blogs that are out there. Right now, there’s a million podcasts we just ticked over the million mark on on Apple podcasts of the million podcasts that are out there. Only 30% of them have created an episode within the last 90 days, which leads me to believe that 70% of them are actually inactive. They’ve created their 10 or 12 episodes, and they’ve gone away. And so for me, I mean, 300,000 versus a billion. There’s no there’s no competition between blogs and in podcasting, podcasting is at its infancy. And when I look at things like Spotify, and Pandora going all in and spending, you know, half a billion dollars on on on podcasting. I know that they are very invested in making sure that this this world continues and Apple recreated an entire platform from iTunes. They started Apple podcasts because they realized they needed their own space for podcasting.

Janet Fish 26:59
Not to mention Amazon’s now in the space to what is Oh, gosh,

Doug Sandler 27:02
I even forgot about Amazon getting into the game as well. And that just happened, you know, as of the recording of this just a couple months ago. Yeah,

Janet Fish 27:08
yeah, absolutely. Okay, so what’s next for nice guys in turnkey?

Doug Sandler 27:12
Jeez, Well, okay, so for for turnkey, I think where we’re heading is we really want to do a full year approach with many of our customers, I think what oftentimes happens is people get into podcasting. And then life takes over. And the reality of it is that when life takes over, people kind of put the podcasting on the shelf. So we’re looking at it and saying, Let’s create a year long program where we can actually not only hold our clients accountable, but we give them support, and we give them one on one coaching, and we give them absolute steps because everything evolves, you know, your show will evolve at a different rate than our show evolved, yours will probably evolve faster than ours did, because people understand the term the in podcasting much better now than they did five or six years ago. So for us, we want to be able to walk through this journey with each one of our clients. And we feel like a mastermind or a year long program is absolutely the way to go. As far as nice guys on business, it’s going to be business as normal. You know, we’ve really, we’ve really struck a chord here with our with our community. And it seems like, you know, as looking back to the last 20 episodes of last 20 episodes, I believe all 20 of them have been sponsored episodes. So it’s like, I don’t see an end for people hopping into onto our, onto our show as as sponsored only guest positions, because it really makes sense. I mean, the business model is we’re making money this way. Why would I want to? Why would I want to give up that coveted space, I could probably do five episodes a week again, and have people sponsor every episode. But that’s not really where I that is a great way for me to pay for my show and the production and all that. But that’s not where the big money maker is the moneymaker comes from the relationships as you are. You mentioned earlier, the relationships that you’re building, through those sponsors, and through those JV partnerships that you’re building from that guest seed from the community and the people out there saying, Hey, this is what we want from the private Facebook groups that we’ve created. That’s where that’s where the big dollars come from. So the admin of running a show becomes secondary to the admin of running the business and the and the, you know, the idea behind let’s keep introducing products and services that our community wants rather than, okay, let’s just keep taking sponsors, sponsors are trading time for dollars, and you’re going to run out of that pretty quickly.

Janet Fish 29:27
Yeah, well, I’m looking forward to that mastermind and learning more about it. All right, I believe you have something that you want to give away to our audience so that they can learn more about how if they’re interested in podcasting, how to do it, right.

Doug Sandler 29:39
Yeah. And that’s terrific. And thank you Janet, for for sharing that. Yeah, anybody that’s in your community that is interested, let’s just send them and let’s give them a toolkit. A tool kit includes some downloadable documents so they can see things like our five ways to make money podcast again see secrets of top podcasters revealed. It also gives them an opportunity to step a little bit closer to us and seeing if podcasting is right for them. We have a Free consult, you can hop on the phone with one of our zoom now with one of our team members, and see if podcasting is right for you. And if it’s a good fit, we’re happy to say, hey, this seems to be a good fit. We can’t force anybody through this process. So if you get on the phone with us, and we don’t really think that podcasting is a good fit for you, for whatever reason, then then we’ll be the first to tell you that, hey, look, just let’s talk about it in six months or a year from now. But right now, it’s not a good fit for you. We do find that a lot of people are just not, they can’t get out of their own way. So sometimes they’re not ready to get rolling with it yet. So if that’s the case, so hop on the phone with us or on zoom with us and get the free downloadable documents and we’ll take it from there. It’s a turnkey podcast, comm forward slash toolkit.

Janet Fish 30:43
Alright, so there’ll be a link to it below. Awesome. Doug, thank you so much for spending some time with me this afternoon. It’s been awesome.

Doug Sandler 30:49
My pleasure. And thank you, Jen, and congratulations on taking your show to the next level. Let’s see what happens next.

Janet Fish 30:54
Yeah, I’m pretty excited about that. All right, breakaway entrepreneurs. I just want to remind you that success starts with your mindset, but it takes massive action to get there. All right, Doug, thank you so much. I appreciate you coming on. We look forward to downloading the toolkit. I actually think when I first started. Way back when I downloaded a bunch of your stuff. I don’t remember the toolkit, but I know I’ve looked at your how to be a good guest. So I was kind of stalking you before I actually committed to working with you. And it’s been awesome. So thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Doug Sandler 31:24
We encourage stalkers. Thank you, Janet.

Janet Fish 31:26
All right. Japan’s gonna take us out. Thanks so much.

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