Podcasting for Entrepreneurs with Michelle Abraham E33 – Transcript

Janet Fish 0:07
Hello and welcome to the breakaway entrepreneur podcast where we explore the entrepreneur mindset and the characteristics and traits that lead to success. I’m your host, Janet Fish, and in this episode I talk with Michelle Abraham. Well, I enjoy all my interviews. This one was special because as a podcaster myself, I got to ask an expert. The questions that I was curious about. Michelle is an international speaker, podcast host and Podcast Producer. Michelle was just voted number 16 of the top 50 moms in podcasting by podcast magazine. She is the founder of amplify you Kevin Harrington original shark on the TV hit show Shark Tank says amplify you is North America’s top podcast management company. Michelle and her team have launched well over 100 podcasts in the last 12 months and manages over 50 weekly shows. If you’re an entrepreneur who is thinking about launching a podcast, or if you already have a podcast and want some great insights on how to improve your reach, you’ll want to listen. So I hope you enjoy our chat. Welcome, Michelle, to the podcast. I’m so excited to have you. I got to go on to yours a couple of weeks ago, and it was really fun. And so I get to explore you this time instead of you exploring me, so I’m pretty excited about it.

Michelle Abraham 1:29
Yeah, so awesome. I loved our interview together on my show end up being so funny. It was one of my favorite ones we’ve done,

Janet Fish 1:36
and it was fun. So I will post a link to that in the show notes. So anybody who wants to listen to that can can get another dose of you and i doing what we do. So just start out with telling us a little bit about you, and who you are, what you do, and kind of tell us some of the unique things about where you live because I think that’s so cool.

Michelle Abraham 1:55
Sure, yeah. Well thank you so much for having me here. So have a great fee. Here on Your show Um, so my name is Michelle Abraham and I am a podcast producer. And I have a company called amplify here where we help podcast podcasters get their show out there in the world. Usually our clients are authors, coaches, speakers who have a big mission and a big heart and want to make a big impact in the world. And so we help them stay in their zone of content creation zone of genius. Well, we take care of all the technology and all the rest. So we hold your hand walk you through launching a show and then managing your show on a regular basis. And I just love doing that we’re able to do that because I live completely off the grid which is very unusual. I hear a saying so are completely hundred percent off the grid we live. We take a boat to our house where we live on the lake on the Sunshine Coast of BC. And I drive my kids to school by boat. So they drive them to the school bus. The school bus picks them up on the side of the lake and then they often go to school. So kind of a unique living experience but because of podcasts We were able to have this lifestyle. My husband was able to quit his job at 18 years. And we were able to live where we do so it’s been well defined.

Janet Fish 3:09
Oh, cool. That’s so excellent. That’s great. So how long have you been helping? podcasters?

Michelle Abraham 3:16
And then tell us a little bit how you do it. Yeah, absolutely. So we’ve been so I’ve been working in the podcasting space since 2012. And actually, what’s really funny Genesis this morning I was on into I was on an interview this morning on a podcast where it was my podcast mentor, who, when back in 2012, I had a co working space in Vancouver. We were the first co working space outside of the downtown Vancouver area. And so we had a nice meeting space and a lot of education went on there. And so we’d invite people in to do workshops, and we I was both passionate about podcasting. I was like, What the heck’s podcasting? What are you talking about? And so I found I went on a hunt to find someone who knew anything about podcasting in that area. And sure enough, I found that guiding Scott. And Scott. It was amazing. He is a pathologist, he calls himself. And so he came and started speaking at my Meetup group for podcasting. I learned tons from him. And so I got to be on his podcast this morning. And he’s had his show for 15 years. Can you imagine and I use God as an example, in a lot of shows that I go on, because he he was something he said to me is always stuck with me and is that you had a podcast back in 2000 or 2001, about weight loss. And all the way back in 2012. He was the novice 12 years after that should have been live and he was still getting people saying how much they changed his life. Without Wow, 12 years that show has been live for and he’s still getting people commenting because it doesn’t go away. It stays there forever. And I think that’s what I really like about podcasting. And so now we help people launch their shows, help them create their ideas strategize about the best positioning for them and their show to create themselves. As an expert, and we help you monetize your show as well. So lots of different things that we do. But we really specialize in that ongoing podcast management on a weekly basis for you so that you can not get bogged down with all the details of the podcast. Because as you know, agenda, there’s a lot that goes into other than just the recording. There’s that all the editing and all the marketing and all the graphics and all customer stuff. So we help people and we take care of that for them. And so they can go out there in the world and do what they do best.

Janet Fish 5:29
Oh, that’s awesome.

Michelle Abraham 5:30
So what would you What would you say to somebody who said, because I hear it a lot, I mean, I talk to entrepreneurs all the time. That’s my, those are my people. And they’re curious as to why I started a podcast. And then I say, well, should I start a podcast so I know I’m so I’m, what, eight months into my podcast. I know pretty well what it takes to produce and create a podcast. But what would you tell somebody who was thinking about it? Thinking about launching a podcast? What are the pros cons? What are the realities of it? What would your advice be? Yeah, those are good questions. You know, I really, I really love talking about this because entrepreneur podcasters are completely different than what you’re hearing about the rest of the podcasting industry. Because the other rest of the industry, you have to remember, they’re out there, they’re entertaining. They’re talking about sports, they’re comedy shows, they’re all sorts of different kinds of shows that are out there wanting to get ads, and sponsorship and monetize monetization by like Patreon donation kind of platform. That’s their thing. And that’s how they’re going to monetize their show. But for entrepreneurs, they have a completely different perspective, where actually for us to monetize our show would mean having a return coming back into our business from our podcasts. So using our podcasts as a lead generator, expert positioning, I think and a networking tool. It’s one of my favorite things to do and so well everyone over in the rest of the podcast space is chasing the hundreds of pounds. As a downloads, for the most of us, if we had 10,000 new leads in our business, it would probably put us out of business pretty quick. So what we’re after is a little bit different. What we are after is relationships. And we’re after people getting to know like, and trust us from our shows, we’re out there to expand our network by reaching out and interviewing other people, bringing them into our world, introducing them to our audience. We are also after the relationships have like, you know, those, those thousand downloads instead of those thousand downloads, just being a number out there. So what we think is different about the entrepreneurs out there. So we have a different kind of need from our podcasts, and also a different way of looking at podcasting, which I think we do agree that’s kind of how how you’ve used your podcast as well. Yeah, you

Janet Fish 7:48
know, it’s interesting, the thing that and I might have mentioned this when we were talking in our last conversation, the thing one of the big things that really resonated with me and switched for me was my goal was to increase my audience increase my reach. So that’s pretty obvious. Everyone’s trying to do that, whether they’re sending out postcards via the mail, or doing online things. But the thing that really got me was I have been, I had blogged for years. So I had been an active blogger. And I done that I was just at the point where I just couldn’t do that anymore. But one of it, so then I went and did some research. And so you spent hours because there’s a lot out there, which is why I’m glad we’re having that conversation. Because I want to hone in more on what you do and what makes you guys special, but there’s ton of people out there and a ton of information about podcasting, but the thing that got me was one of the guys said, people who listen to podcasts are very are completely different audience than people who read blogs. And I’m sure there’s some overlap, but they’re a completely different audience and I didn’t really get that. And then the thing that really got me was people who listen to podcast, they hear your voice and they get you I mean, there’s a much bigger connection when you’re listening to somebody conversation than there is from just reading their blogs. And so that really resonated to me because one is you’re reaching a market that is very different. And to your reach, and then you’re reaching them. And we will, we’ll talk for 45 minutes or an hour or however long these these, the interviews go. That’s way different than reading a five minute blog post. And so that really, that really got me is to the reach of a podcast that’s very different. And I had no idea how much fun this was going to be. I mean, I thought, okay, that’s another marketing tool that I’ll do that I get to meet really cool people like you. I’m working on that book idea or that article idea. I’m still got that I had, I did an outline and last weekend I was writing and so more to come on that. So there’s a lot of people like I said, there’s a lot of people out there who do what you do, or there are a lot of people out who help people launch and then other people People who do production kind of what makes you different than the other ones out there? Because I know you’re super special. And I know you’ve been doing it a long time. And I know you got a long history of great happy clients. But what makes you guys different than anybody else that’s out there doing that kind of stuff?

Michelle Abraham 10:14
Yeah, that’s a great question. You know, there’s lots of accolades. I can tell you, like, just got nominated as Entrepreneur of the Year award this year, you know, we are top 50, the top number 16 out of the top 50 mom podcasters by podcasts magazine. Just like you know, Kevin Harrington says our podcast company is tough on North America’s top podcast management company. So those are some things that you we have some great social credibility. But outside of that, I think what’s different is that we really understand our, our clients, so we understand the entrepreneurs and what they need from a podcast and what they want from a podcast. And you’re absolutely correct, where, you know, podcast listeners are so valuable. So right now we live in a time of tension in time and attention is our best commodity, right? So What we found is that, you know, listening to podcasts, podcasts are gonna listen to podcast listeners are gonna listen to about 20 minutes of your show, on average. And you know what? They you can’t even get close to that on YouTube. It’s four minutes and two seconds on Instagram and Facebook. It’s like 18 seconds and four seconds. It’s very minimal amount of time. So what’s great about podcasting and why one of the reasons I love it is that you’re not it’s not interruption marketing, so you’re not interrupting them, you’re inviting them to come along and listen to your show, no matter what they’re doing. So they’re out walking the dog, they’re enjoying their life, they’re having, you know, cooking dinner, working out at a gym. So whatever they’re doing, whatever the listener is doing is really great because you’re just fitting in and you’re able, they’re able to absorb and understand and you’re who have their attention for so much longer, which is incredible. So that’s one thing that I think is really different about podcasting, and especially for the entrepreneurs and like You said, there’s so many blogs out there. And it’s interesting. There’s over a million podcasts right now. And that was as of April 2020. But what’s interesting about that, is podcasting is still in its infancy stages. So yes, there’s a million podcasts out there. But there’s also a lot more listeners now, too, which is great. And so what we’re finding is that, you know, there there is million podcasts. But in the last three days, there’s been more than a million blog posts written. So we’re still nowhere near the amount of blog posts or meta blogs that are out there. And so people are coming in, in all different learning styles, right? So there are the people that love reading. There are the people that love listening and that people love watching, or they’re kinesthetic. So people learn in all sorts of different ways. But what we find is the audio listeners and they will listen on that but the great thing of a podcasting, as you mentioned, is that we can take our podcasts instead of thinking but as another marketing thing, we have to do Like we all do, right? It’s like, oh, gosh, another thing like another social media platform. Well, if we think of podcasting as the content creation tool for all of our marketing for the month, if you record on zoom like we are right now the video, you get audio, you get little snippets of video you can cut off, you can get an audiogram out of it. You can, you know, make that social media posts and quotes and images and, you know, all your social media content. Basically, the foundation of it for the entire month is covered with a few interviews a month. So that’s kind of how I like to look at it for entrepreneurs. It’s not as an overwhelming thing that they have to do. But as something that, like you said, it’s fun, and I love doing YouTube. It’s one of my most favorite things to do.

Janet Fish 13:44
Yeah, so I have heard some of those statistics, as far as how many podcasts are out there. It’s so two things that I’ve heard and you can you can substantiate whether these are true or not. One is there’s a huge statistic and I couldn’t tell you what it was, but the percentage of podcasters that actually are in business consistently producing content. Six months in or a year in is the numbers go way, way down. So consistency is really important. And I’m just trying to paint the picture that if anybody’s thinking about doing a podcast, there’s a lot less competition than you might think when you look at the numbers, and then I also saw somewhere a number that said, the number of new listeners is like four times the number of new podcasts. So there’s a lot more new listeners than there are people coming into the podcast space. So I just think that’s really encouraging because you know, I’m a big proponent of the podcast. So a couple of things you said that I want to follow up on.

Michelle Abraham 14:42
So they out the average podcast listener listens to over seven shows. So now you take that number, you times that by seven now we’re looking really good. That’s That’s

Janet Fish 14:50
right. So so one of the things that I want to expound on is what you say because I do a weekly podcast, but then I create sound bites from it. So, so I’m creating more content driving more people to it. The other thing is the power of the guests that you have in their community. Now, it’s not always the easiest thing to get them to promote. But if you help them by get sending them sound bites or sending them little snippets, and helping them can really get you into their community, which expands your space. The other thing that I’ve done, and I will just admit right up front, the first time I did it is because I didn’t have a podcast coming up. I like I it was a it was a dry spot in my otherwise crazy schedule of interviews. And I was like, What am I going to do this next week? So I decided to do a highlight reel. So I went back to the first four episodes that I done and I took little snippets of it and I reintroduce the people, which people seem to really like it was really fun for me to go back and revisit that. But it also got for people re engaged in promoting it to their space. Hmm. And so I’m getting ready to do another one of those not because I don’t have enough interviews, but because I think it seems to kind of work so

Michelle Abraham 16:08
and love that idea because I actually just saw someone post a few months ago in the she podcasts group, which is for women podcasters. And it was about the first season of our show, and it was something about the scars we were. And it was just so powerful, like little snippets from every episode, that at the end of the two minute reel, you’re like, Oh, my gosh, like I have to go and listen to this show. Like, just some crazy stories in there. And so that’s such a great idea. And I love that that little trailer that she made. And so what a great idea that you did that and it got bigger engagement, then you’re right. I think some people although they should promote the episode and tag you in it and all that kind of stuff. I think people forget about doing that. Sometimes if we don’t give them the tools that allow them to do that. You know, we don’t give them the content to do it. And it’s harder for them to do it

Janet Fish 17:02
well. And I think it’s one of those things where if you’re if you’re producing every week, then you know I interview you and you’re on this week and I we work together and you promote it then I’m on to the next one the next week and the next one the next week, and you just kind of fall by the wayside. I’m like, No, I want to reengage my guests. Because this is such a powerful tool for them. And I think a lot of them don’t know what to do with it like

Michelle Abraham 17:25
never bringing back those old episodes and re read and promoting them every couple times a month is a great idea to like so you’re always got new content because who sees your posts on Facebook now? probably didn’t see them a month ago. Yeah. And you know, just you know, especially with the way with Facebook is coming so hard to keep current on there. See, like I hardly see any of my friends posts on Facebook. Just as you have more friends on there. It’s hard to see everyone

Janet Fish 17:53
Yeah. Well and I having done it and am doing it, I can definitely see the value. You have someone like you and your team coming in and doing the stuff that I don’t want to do. I mean, I actually didn’t think I’d like editing I really like editing.

Michelle Abraham 18:09
You’re very genuine, get into the editing, and they’re like, Oh my gosh,

Janet Fish 18:14
well, let me let me caveat it. I first of all, I don’t do much editing. So I don’t go and take out the arms and the dog barks and whatever. So I don’t do that. And secondarily, I like the creative part of the editing, where you get to record an intro because I do a separate intro and an outro. And so it’s not so much the tediousness of sitting in a computer editing but you know, adding the music and adding some other things that’s, that’s a little bit creative for me. So I so I like that. You talked about people listen to and I’m gonna Okay, now I’m gonna be selfish again and just be complete like disclosure. I’m asking you the questions that I want. This is really a Janet personal interview. Not so much anybody

Michelle Abraham 18:58
else. My Janet wants to know Probably the rest of the world wants to know.

Janet Fish 19:02
Okay, so you said that

Michelle Abraham 19:07
people moan, Molly Mason mainly listened to 20 minutes or an hour on average 20 minutes. So I do a 40 plus minute on average podcast, should I only do a 20 minute podcast? No. Cuz I think and well, it really depends on your audience. So if you end it this is the tricky thing about podcasting is that it’s very hard. It’s not like YouTube, we cannot see where people drop off, like within the episode, right? So, you know, this five minute episodes that are too long, there’s two hour ones that are too short. So I think I think what it is, is that if you’re noticing that there’s not as much traction to your episodes, then maybe bring them down a little bit more. Or if you feel like an interview is like a little bit of a struggle than just keep it shorter. But I think for the most part and if you can convey like if you if we are talking about podcasting today and we’re keeping very much on topic With some entrepreneurs, they might have many things or many things that they’re doing so might be harder to keep them focused on one topic, you can keep your episode to that one one kind of takeaway, or one topic that makes for a cleaner show and it makes it more digestible for your audience to which I think you do a really great job of that Janet. And you know, some of the shows that if you’re doing a solo show, anyone out there that does those solo shows? Keep it Yeah, keep it to some like one takeaway something one, one piece of information, one concept, not like the the what if you think about a webinar, like the three mistakes and the five ways to change that, and that’s like, those are like four different episodes.

Janet Fish 20:41
Right? But to kind of keep it tight and keep it focused on one kind of specific thing. Have you seen, what have you seen the changes be? Because of COVID. So I mean, we’re almost six months into this place here in the United States. I’ve heard Initially, I heard some of the podcasting direct not directories, but the hosting company say that because people aren’t commuting, and people aren’t going to the gym, there’s been a drop off on listening. What is your experience been? Yeah,

Michelle Abraham 21:17
that’s a good question. Actually, Edison just released an article about this this week. And Edison research is a great tool to find out what’s happening in the podcasting spaces where we get all of our statistics from they’re really the only measurable company out there that does any sort of measuring but what Edison said was that yes, we lost a lot of listeners to to the commuters that were like religiously listening to and from the community and they don’t have those two hours a day anymore, at home to listen, but we also gained a lot more listeners that are now trying to work from home. They don’t have the office buzz people around them. Now they’re sitting at home working. They’re also listening now to podcasts, but they don’t have that option. work environment around them either. And then there were a few other statistics in there that I don’t quite remember. But, um, you know, over I think they’re the overall takeaway was I guess the listeners were down, more people are watching shows, but overall, there’s more lists. There’s more listeners, but those commuters were down initially.

Janet Fish 22:20
So they think that it’s kind of even in doubt now they’re coming coming back. And I just think I think you’re right. I mean, I, in some ways, when I hear people talk about their 15 year old podcast, I’m like, Well, you know, we’re on this part of the curve, you know, we’re on this part of curve, but I really, I think you’re absolutely right. I think there’s a lot of people starting podcasts. What would you say? And I also think, because I am a coach, so I know how I know, people who start and then never finish, let me try to try to put it in a diplomatic way. Right. And so I suspect that that’s a huge I’d love to know if you have any statistics or anecdotal on people who start a podcast and then either don’t continue for a length of time or they start to, you know, frequency they don’t stay with this frequency and some thoughts on on how you avoid the if there is such thing as podcasts fatigue, Mm

Unknown Speaker 23:20
hmm. Hot feet, yeah, idle.

Michelle Abraham 23:24
It is a real thing. And so, there was a statistic that came out last year and it says, if you have 250 downloads per episode, you’re in the top 20% of podcasting, which goes to show that a lot of shows do have that pod feed. And so what typically what we see happen, and you know, we’re really strategic about this at the very beginning with our our podcasters so that this doesn’t happen. If you cannot come up with a list of 20 or 30 topics they’re going to talk about right out of the gate, then we haven’t I clicked close, we haven’t peeled the onion back far enough to figure out that maybe that’s not your topic they can use Nice. So a little bit deeper. When you can stop talking about that topic, that’s why you bought the right house. And pod feed won’t happen as long as you are consistent. So a few things that make people inconsistent are over achieving. So starting off coming out of the gates is a five day a week show, it’s hard to keep that up. And once you start dropping down the episodes, you’re going to lose people. Also, we actually noticed one of our one of our clients, probably as one of the most popular shows that we manage. Last Christmas, she decided to take two weeks off without really thinking about it. She could have pre recorded two episodes, but she didn’t. She just took the two weeks off and we watched her numbers dropped by thousands over those two weeks. And so it was hard to get back up again. After dropping those numbers. So can your listeners are depending on you? I remember when I was a new mom and I first started becoming a podcast listener. I think it really helped pull me out of postpartum depression because I could feel myself going that way of being a busy career woman before and having my own business before becoming a new mom. I love being a mom but my business brain was going to mush. And so I really I turned on the TV and it was so so excited to see a show. But that show is like Eventual Millionaire by Jamie tardy is still around, I think good. But I if I knew it came out Monday morning, so every Monday morning, I’d have my earbuds ready to like, when the episodes drop, we go out for a walk, and I could listen. your listeners are going to be behaving in that way too. So if it’s not job Monday morning, I would be I would be upset about that. I would be calling Jamie saying what’s going on with your show. So you’re gonna lose your loyal listeners if you don’t be consistent. So I think that those are a couple things that help not overachieving with the amount of downloads you’re committing to, I think around the show as a community from the beginning to help.

Janet Fish 25:52
So I took actually since since I started I took one week off and I I didn’t think about it. So I didn’t notice that I have notified people like I’m gonna take the week off. Or, and, and then I did this other thing. So this was just two weeks ago. I was getting ready to, to record to edit. It was Thursday, August 20. Because I actually did a I did a four minute podcast episode on that. So it was it was Thursday, August 20. We had been it had been 10 days of like, over 100 it was 112 like heat, right? So couldn’t go outside. Then we had fires so that you know, you can can’t smoke and ashes falling from the sky. You know, we’ve been locked indoors for you know, five months, six months. And I was just like, I can’t do it. I just can’t do it. So I decided to just do a four minute podcast that said, I’m just calling uncle. I can’t do it. And I’m just telling maybe you’re feeling the same way and I went into some other life. It started out really gloom and doom. And I started to kind of hope to be a little, you know, inspirational at the end. But I just, I just called it and said, I can’t do it. And this is where we are. And I’ll be back next week with another great episode. But for today, this is where you get. And but I did take one week off, and I it was a vacation and I didn’t even think and i and i hope so hopefully it didn’t hurt my numbers. But I should have thought, even if you do something like that, even if you do some kind of Oh, it’s always better to pre record I think episodes but but that’s that’s a good thing to to know.

Michelle Abraham 27:34
Yeah, it is. And you know, it’s one of those things that I think we need to think about podcasting as a long term strategy, right. It’s not an immediate return on our investment. Usually, usually it’s going to take a while. But what’s cool though, podcasting and in our loyal listener space, is that they’re going to be ready to work with you. Because they get to know you like you trust you. I mean, I can’t tell you how many podcasts I’ve listened to where if I saw them at a conference, I Want to give a go and give him a big hug? Because, like I know them, right? It’s a weird feeling being on the other side. So, as entrepreneurs, I think it’s our job to then think about it, you know, looking at the numbers and looking about thinking about the relationships and not so much about the download numbers, and thinking about, you know, how can we move these people into our business? What can we offer them? Can they join the community, you want to reach out and talk to us? So taking the next step? So, as a listener, I’m always thinking how can I how do I get to work with this person? or How can I reach out and get more of them so and when you’re saying that your solo episode because usually to a lot of interviews, so what I, which I want to share with your audience that they might find this really fascinating is that all of our all of our clients, no matter to show it is including my own work. I like you ad mostly interviews. The most popular episodes are always the ones you do. You’re on your own. It’s not weird. It was weird, weird, but they come for you. And that’s why they’re here is to learn from you. So I had someone asked me the other day, if it was okay, if they, you know, maybe they should cut out some of the stuff because they were adding some information in between the questions. I was like, No, like, that’s perfect because we’re getting to know you too. And that’s why they’re here is because of you.

Janet Fish 29:23
Well, you know, you mentioned that in our interview. And so I immediately have added in and I think it’s, I’m now trying to think of like once a month I will do either a QA or, you know, I’ve got a ton of content because I’ve been coaching for 15 years and so I might add in just a bit on like mindset I did one of the one episode because this podcast is all about mindset and the entrepreneur mindset and I’m really fascinated by that. And so I did one that was just me, which was really it made me really uncomfortable. But you inspired me because You said, People might resonate with that and look at the numbers. And so I think that’s a great thing. And I think it’s great to, to mix it up and mix up the, the, because interviews are great, but just doing different things

Michelle Abraham 30:15
for our entrepreneur podcast is to another great thing is I always bring on other podcasters on my show and interview them as podcasters and talk about like, what they’re, you know, our audience of people who are podcasting. But what it inadvertently did was a lot of them are clients of ours, and it turns into really great testimonials for us. So bringing on your clients, your show is a great idea, interviewing your clients, asking them what their before and after was. I think that’s also a really great idea.

Janet Fish 30:42
Oh, that’s excellent. So you mentioned monetization, and I know that’s the that’s the most overused word in the podcast world. But I know you work with clients on that any thought What are your thoughts on the monetization of a podcast?

Michelle Abraham 31:00
Yeah, for sure we come up with a profitable podcast or formula. And basically what that is, is we’re taking a look at your business and your podcasts and how we can intertwine them together. So instead of chasing the sponsorship and the monetization over here, like the sponsorship and the ads, and you know what you hear a lot of on, for podcasting, we’re taking a look at your business in in, in total. So where are you 70 people from the podcast? How is that working within your business? Is that going into, you know, a direct message? Is that an application that work with you? Is it a free Facebook group? And one of the things we do in our businesses, we have a Facebook group called my podcast, Coach Comm. And so when people go into that group, we have tons of free training, and then we do Facebook Live all the time and whatever product we’re working on. We do it live in that group first before we turn it into a paid product. But what we’ve done is from the podcasts and from whatever, we’re doing the anywhere we send people to that podcast group, but on common entry, we ask them, what’s your email address? What are you struggling with the most when it comes to podcasting right now and if we can wave a magic wand, what can we help you with? to immediately help you get more results? Or since we’ve crafted a few questions in there. So now is super interesting, because we thought we were gonna chat, we thought we were talking to this kind of people over here, when actually coming through our podcast group we finding out Oh, my gosh, we have all these people here. So we thought we were talking to people who already had shows, when actually coming through those Facebook group is people that don’t have a show yet. So it’s interesting, because now because I know that information, we can tailor what we’re doing to that if I didn’t know that information, I’d be trying to sell them, you know, diamonds when they want pennies, and it’s not like not the same sort of thing. So yeah, that’s a really valuable way to get to know your podcast audience because I know sometimes you’re out there talking you feel like you’re talking to is no feedback if you don’t know who you’re talking to. So I think that was a really valuable way of moving people into that next step of working with you.

Janet Fish 33:08
So, some anybody listening to this podcast if they wanted to work with you or find out more about what you do, would my podcast work? best place for them? Yeah,

Michelle Abraham 33:19
that’s the first place to go to our Facebook group and join the Facebook group. And then also have a bunch of gifts that I can give away as well. So my podcast coach comm forward slash gifts, there’s two gifts there. One is a really cool monetization guide and that my co founder of my podcast coach Evans, Putman has has put together he his work to them podcast that was making half a million dollars in reoccurring revenue from it and it was also sold for six figures. So he’s got a lot of expertise in monetizing we have this little joke he’s the monetizing on the optimizer. So my job is to help you make sure you have a well oiled machine is Bring you leads back into your business. We do the management of the show and everything. And then he really helps with the strategy of the monetization. That’s why we work together as a team. And so the other gift there is the seven places that podcasters look for guests. So if you’re looking, you’re thinking about podcasting. So if you’re out there listening to this episode, like I think I want to be, I want to do podcasting, but not sure about my own show, go out and be a guest first, because it’s kind of like thinking about how backlinking used to work back in the day with websites where you get a link on your site, and maybe the link on there so connected you. Well, now, podcasting, you’re going in and being interviewed on all these different shows, and then you’re having all those shows coming back to you. So I think that’s a really valuable way of being able to bring people back into your business and going back to your monetization question Jenna, you know, your own problems, programs and services. That is the best way to monetize your podcast because you have so many different levels of offers. You can make we’ve seen people do it from selling their book in the parenting space to a $10,000 coaching program, you know, those, those are going to take a year of them listening to you before they’re ready to invest in that. But when they’re ready, they’re ready. Right? So we’ve seen all sorts of different things from a $27 offer to a free offer. And my last gift for you guys is also at my podcast, Coach comm forward slash private. And what that one is going to give you is that right now, we’re kind of we’ve been doing a little bit of research lately, even tonight, and we’ve realized that if you have a podcast and you’re sending people to a PDF, or you’re sending them to a video, they’re only on there listening as a different medium. So if you can send them to something on audio, then they’re gonna they’re on their phone already. It’s a lot easier for them to consume that content because it’s on audio. So we’ve created a program that’s called five ways that you can use private audio to make more money and get more listeners, your podcasts, and it’s free and it’s up that link I gave you My podcast coach comm forward slash private. And what it’s going to do is when you opt in for it, it’s going to say, Where do you want to listen to this on Google, Spotify or Apple, where you’re already listening to your podcast, and it’s going to look exactly like a podcast. It’s going to show up in your podcast episodes. But it’s private, and you can’t share it with anybody. And it’s a it’s a unique link for you.

Janet Fish 36:23
Oh, that’s so I’m gonna go check out those myself. So my podcast, Coach slash gifts, get coach slash private

Unknown Speaker 36:33
private. Yep.

Janet Fish 36:35
Perfect. So the other question, I have a couple more questions. Should a podcaster also do video and publish on YouTube? And why?

Michelle Abraham 36:53
Yeah, that’s a good question. You know, I have personal preference, but if the whole reason you’re trying to do this is to gain more exposure, get more leads, I would not leave out the multimillion dollar platform of YouTube. So there’s two different ways you can do your podcasts on there. You can actually literally put your audio podcast onto onto YouTube and libsyn actually does that automatically for you, if you’re using Lipson as a host, the, what you would what it would look like is just your podcast cover as a video, and then it would play your show in the background. The other option is to create a nice intro on video when you have your video format. And that goes, that goes better. You’re going to get more downloads, but one thing I would do is change the title. titles are very literal and searchable on YouTube. We’re podcasting the actual episode titles don’t really matter that the overall podcast titled matters, so Jen’s ears is very searchable with breakaway entrepreneur rates, very searchable entrepreneurs very searchable. So but then when you’re putting the episodes on YouTube each, each episode should be renamed into something that’s like a searchable keywords as well. Okay, that’s from my YouTube expert, but that’s what I know about you.

Janet Fish 38:10
So now you just gave me a whole nother project did you work to go change it because I use the name of the podcast as the name of the episode. So anyway, good news. So that’s a good thing. You’ll

Michelle Abraham 38:22
get more you’ll just get more reach if you change up to the what’s some of the content in there

Janet Fish 38:27
that you can work to

Michelle Abraham 38:28
get and then publish your show notes. Also on YouTube is by doing your show notes should have some searchable content. Another tip, yeah, that will help with your SEO. Excellent. That’s excellent.

Janet Fish 38:39
What else was I gonna ask you? Oh, so you, like you said you’re you’re somewhat unique. You live off the grid. This is kind of and I sent you a whole bunch of questions that we didn’t even talk about. So I will get back and this will be my final, final question. Talk about your experience as an author entrepreneur, you have a very unique level of freedom that you live with, or onder or whatever. So talk a little bit about your experience and then what got you to living? Like the most freedom life? I don’t know possible, but it’s pretty. You pick and choose where you live. And that’s pretty darn cool. I’d like to hear more about that journey.

Michelle Abraham 39:22
Yeah, absolutely. Well, it started off like, when I was sitting in an office and I had this amazing job right after I went to the outdoor rec for school, of course, because it was in my 20s You know, it actually started with a tragedy my backpacking through your awkward two best friends and one of them was killed by a train. And so I use this in my stories because her life was cut off just like that at 19 and she had a story shared back and to share. So that said, my life on a trajectory that’s different than most people’s where the American Dream Canadian dream, go get a job go to school of thought that I looked at that one day in a networking event. I saw screen often said this was the American Canadian dream. And I was like not for me like that’s crazy. So I started doing my whole goal in my 20s was to get paid to play so worked in cruise ships and adventure tourism resorts, ski resorts, like all over the world as a nanny and okay are in Switzerland backpacking, surely New Zealand Fiji backpacked in Europe and just drove across Canada with my girlfriends and just had a lot of fun in my 20s

Unknown Speaker 40:27
and then

Michelle Abraham 40:30
had a gym. So I saw I was sitting in I was working in a ski resort us for ski company, where every weekend we’re taking people away on vacation scheme, their corporations or universities and colleges, and it was a lot of fun. But it wasn’t really contributing anything to society. I was just, you know, have a lot of fun on the weekends with people. And so I wanted to become a personal trainer really into fitness and, and wellness. And so I built a jam and then I set in boot camp locations across our province, and I built that business and I really got into the marketing of it. The longer I was in the fitness industry, the more autoshape I got is, the less time I got to spend working out like I wanted to. So I love that business, I have a lot of fun. But when I became a mom, I was like, that’s not a sustainable career anymore for me. And I really fell in love with the marketing. And so I opened a co working space outside of Vancouver, and it was the first co working space in me, outside of the downtown area back in like 2013. And it was a little ahead of its time. But it allowed me to help entrepreneurs leverage their time, make more money. We used to do that through podcasting, writing books, and publishing books and online courses. So it’s to help people do all those sorts of things. And so I’ve been doing that since then, for the last seven or eight years, seven years or so. But we’ve just narrowed our focus in the last three years to just podcasting. And since we narrowed our focus our businesses, obviously, it was the right timing for podcasting and we’ve done a lot of a lot of great things there. My husband and I every weekend. His family has a cabin on the Sunshine Coast, which is where everyone goes on vacation from the Lord mainline in Vancouver. And so you’re going up there every weekend. And we bought a house in the suburbs. My husband was commuting and his job like three hours a day and while I was out here enjoying my life and having so much fun and traveling everywhere, I didn’t know him at the time, but he would he’d worked 18 years straight, like straight from Korean 11 on and to get to have a lot of fun in his life. Other axes at work so much and so he was setting to become not happy with work and commuting three hours a day. And you talked about moving up to this, this place where his parents had this property and we talked about it and talked about it and then the universe one day which is slapped us across the face and said do it but got a flood in our house. And we had to move out of our house for six weeks. Well route we said hey, why don’t we just see what happens in the market. We’ll put our house for sale and see we can do this and we had a four year old and a two year old at the time and sold our house. We moved up to the Sunshine Coast. So in perspective, it’s like an hour ferry ride and then an hour drive and then a 10 minute trip across the lake so it’s not super far away. It’s a great way we can get away but still far enough away from everyone. And so we moved there and we haven’t been happier. We love living there. It’s great. It was sitting empty nine months of the year and so now his parents has come and stay with us at their vacation home in the summer and it’s really great. The kids get to go to school by school by boat and we’re able to run he was able to retire quick his business and now he fixes boats on the lake and his made his own little business up there and it’s really awesome. And thanks to podcasting, our first winter that we moved there we weren’t sure because we’re so little how it was going to be going across the lake. So we I had this idea for a podcast and but I wanted to go RV but we’ve never been in RV before. It didn’t know anyone in the RV space. Didn’t have any Any business that Arby’s at all, but we know we wanted to go our being. So I created an RV summit RV family summit, and invited 25 experts, the company interviewed on the summit. And then we recorded a bit for a podcast too. And so we had a podcast. And then we had the summit and it’s some of recordings and I made enough money during that summit that it paid for our RV. And we say five months going from Vancouver all through California and Nevada, Arizona and stuff with our kids. And that was three years ago now and the kids talk about it like weekly so like they just it was the best thing ever for them was super fun.

Janet Fish 44:36
Well, that’s great. I mean, that’s the epitome of freedom. And I’m, I’m all about freedom living where you want to live doing what you love to do doing it with the people that you love to do it. What a great story. Michelle, you are so fabulous. Is there anything else you want to share with the listeners before we end our conversation today?

Michelle Abraham 44:55
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. This has been super fun and I know your listeners out there with Thinking, should I serve hyenas Should I not? So your podcast and you know, what I’m going to say to that is that Google has some things up their sleeve right now, that if you do not have a podcast and the next few years, you’re going to be left behind. And I mean that and then more of a sense of like SEO and search ability, it’s going to be even more important to have a podcast and that is to have a website. So this is how your customers are now consuming content. And this is how they’re going to find you. They’re actually indexing podcasts, individual episodes higher than your own website, hire YouTube videos. So we’re just at the beginning of this, still podcasting in his infancy stages. So I think just grab your own platform, start talking, enjoy it, start building relationships, use it as a networking tool to meet other people. And like Janet, I will say is our most favorite activity in our business. Yeah, it’s a lot of fun, right? And when you get to meet like, cool people, like I met, you want a zoom call, and I’m like, and you invited me on your path, and I’m like, great. Come on mine and We had this little article flash, I don’t know if it’ll be a book, but we got this idea, we’re gonna share that. And we’ll stay in touch. And I’ll send clients to you, and you’ll send clients during Yeah, this is, it’s not just about reaching the outside audience, it’s reaching. You know,

Unknown Speaker 46:19
if an audience

Michelle Abraham 46:20
said this on an interview this morning to is about finding your joint venture and collaboration partners to you or the people you’re interviewing. So that’s the fastest way to grow your business is finding partners that will also promote you. So getting with those people that have the same audience, but offer something completely different than you do, and interviewing them and getting in front of them and being in their world is going to just like you’re going to see it tenfold back in your business and that ROI is going to happen faster than you can imagine. So, I mean, I wouldn’t be anywhere without these kind of networking experiences in my business. And when a world has shut down completely. The people that have adopted this, their businesses have grown over This period of time, right?

Janet Fish 47:02
Well, and one of the biggest challenges that I find with my clients and I’ve experienced it myself, you know, I’m a solo entrepreneur, I don’t have people who do certain things for me that are contracts, but I don’t have an office even if I before COVID but I, it can be a very lonely place to be an entrepreneur. And that’s why I do a bunch of group coaching that brings people together, but it can be a very lonely place. It’s hard to be lonely when you’re even though we’re doing it via zoom. I started out podcasting doing interviews in my kitchen table, which was fun. But it this it’s about a community in ins and outs and joint ventures and, and and that can fill a big, big space for people and so well, I mean, that’s one of those intangible not thought about benefits of getting involved in a community like podcasting, but for me, it’s been a huge one.

Michelle Abraham 47:58
That’s awesome. Yeah, and and the podcasting community is growing so fast, but it’s also one of the friendliest, nicest and most collaborative communities I’ve ever been involved in. Awesome.

Janet Fish 48:08
All right, Michelle, thank you so much for your time. I really, really appreciate you. We’ll be in touch because we’re gonna make that thing happen.

Michelle Abraham 48:14
Absolutely. And for those of you that are like left in suspense, it’s about the funny things that happened when you’re recording on zoom. I

Janet Fish 48:21
think we called it awkward moments.

Michelle Abraham 48:24
Yes, we’ve got a lot of those between.

Janet Fish 48:26
We do we? I’ve added a couple since our last since our conversation, from my experience of, you know, people walking around with their anyway, we won’t have to wait till it comes out.

Michelle Abraham 48:41
Right. Thank you so much for having me. All right. Thanks, Michelle.

Janet Fish 48:46
Thank you for listening to the breakaway entrepreneur Janet Fish. If you’re an entrepreneur who wants to take your business to the next level, and you don’t want to do alone. I invite you to apply for a free strategy session with me. We’ll get on the phone and talk about about where you are and where you want to go. I’ve coached over 1000 people over the last 15 years, I’m confident you’ll leave the call with at least one thing you can do immediately to grow your business. So if you’re interested email me at coach at breakaway business coaching. com. There’s also more information on it in the show notes. So until next week, make it a great day.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai