Pay Yourself First with Rennie Gabriel E23 – Transcript

Janet Fish 0:08
Hello and welcome to the breakaway entrepreneur podcast where we explore the entrepreneur mindset and the characteristics and traits that lead to success. My guest today is Rennie Gabriel Rennie has gone from selling bottles and cans to feed his family to becoming a multi millionaire real estate investor. Ronnie uses the profits from his business to support a charity called shelter to soldier that pairs up rescue dogs with soldiers returning from war with post traumatic stress disorder. Rennie shares his advice on how to become wealthy and the importance of giving back. I hope you enjoy our chat. All right, Randy Gabriel, how you doing this afternoon?

Rennie Gabriel 0:44
I’m doing fabulous. Thank you.

Janet Fish 0:46
It’s so awesome to have you on the podcast. I’m looking forward to our chat. So why don’t we just start out by you telling us a little bit about you.

Rennie Gabriel 0:54
Um, well I was born in this little town but not too far from the California coast called Los Angeles. Yeah, yeah.

Janet Fish 1:02
Yeah, we don’t have to go back to the beginning of time. We only have 45 minutes to an hour.

Rennie Gabriel 1:09
No, okay, fine. God, I wouldn’t even gotten to where I am in life at this point 45 minutes. So, what the thing that’s most important to me is what I’m doing versus what I do. Okay? What I’m doing is donating 100% of the profits from my supporting other people and how to handle money powerfully and become philanthropic. 100% of the profits go to a charity called shelter to soldier and they rescue dogs from high kill environments.

Because dogs do have a special purpose in this life.

And they train them as service animals for soldiers who’ve come back with post traumatic stress disorder, or traumatic brain injuries. And our returning soldiers are committing suicide at the rate of almost one an hour. Not one soldier who’s gotten their service dog is committed suicide. Awesome. So, this charity is saving two lives at a time dogs that would have been euthanized and soldiers otherwise committed or could have committed suicide. So hundred percent of my profits go there. And that’s that’s what I’m doing. That’s what I’m most proud of.

Janet Fish 2:21
Awesome. So tell me, give us a little background on how you got started as an entrepreneur, the business that you built that led you to where you are today?

Rennie Gabriel 2:33
Well, I’ve been a serial entrepreneur most of my life. I taught for once. Season I forget what you call them now as a school teacher a semester. semester. Yes. Well, actually was two semesters. It was a full year. And after that, I started doing sales. I earned more money at that than I did as in a week as I did. As a whole month as a school teacher, and I wanted to do something that I thought would last a little bit longer than the kind of sales I was doing. So I went into financial services, did that for about a quarter century, started a pension administration company with a couple partners sold that off to a public company. Had a book publishing company for quite a few years did business coaching for financial planning and accounting firms. There’s probably more stuff I did that I’m forgetting about. But what I realized is as an entrepreneur, I had this up and down income. I might do well one month and not do my marketing and then had income dips the next month. And that roller coaster drove me crazy. So what I started doing was investing in real estate. And I figured that would level out the income and it did When I had two divorces and one of those businesses Oh, now I remember one of them I missed with art galleries that went bust that took me down. By the time I was 50, after two divorces in that business failure, I was flat broke. And that’s where I started over. Doing what I coach other people to do 5000 year old secret called pay yourself first. And rather than making a statement, like what ordinary people do, like, I’ve heard that I know that I’ve done that. And I had done that a couple times before. This time, I had to really get serious about it. And I saved up in three years. $18,000 Wow. Yeah, I feel like was it Mike Myers and Austin Powers? 1 million No. $18,000 But my wife, my last final best wife had a real estate partner who said, Oh, that we should buy this triplex. I can’t do much with $18,000. But my wife chipped in 18. And the realtor said, Okay, I’ll chip in the other half. So we made the 70 to $72,000 downpayment, and the three of us bought this triplex. And that’s what started everything. And that’s why I say, wealth creation is a team sport, not a solo sport. So I manage the properties or the property, I borrowed more money to make down payments on what other apartment buildings, and that fits another attitude wealthy people have is debt, you use debt to create wealth. Yeah. And so in the next like, six, seven years, we went from that Original triplex 250 units we owned and operated. And I went from flat broke at age 50. About six, seven years later to a multimillionaire. Yeah, so that was the real estate business. And when I severed Achilles tendon about six, seven years ago, I didn’t have to work for a living. But I started going stir crazy and that’s when I started teaching other people how to become wealthy, with the objective of them being philanthropic.

Janet Fish 6:35
So go into going a little deeper into the creation of wealth. How people typically don’t go there or don’t pay themselves first. So how you kind of help people get into the mindset of becoming wealthy, versus just making money Like there’s a mindset shift there. There’s a, there’s a way you live your life differently. When you create wealth versus you just go make money, exact talk about that distinction.

Rennie Gabriel 7:12
It has to do a lot with the people that we seem to attract in our programs. They’re generally coaches. They’re entrepreneurs who are heart centered. They may be healers. They’re people who traditionally might be struggling financially. And one of the difficulties we have is that society doesn’t value of financial education. Even worse, Hollywood, fairy tales, books by Charles Dickens, the scripture programmers subconsciously to believe that only the poor people are the kind of noble Yeah,

Janet Fish 7:56
I grew up thinking that right I grew up that rich people were I mean, exactly.

Rennie Gabriel 8:00
And Hollywood perpetuates this myth. I mean, if you look at movies like Titanic, or it’s a wonderful life, or Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, or I mean, I could go on and on and on. Yeah. I mean, even the TV program Game of Thrones, you had the Starks versus the Lannisters.

Where the noble people were poor.

And the wealthy people took advantage of the poor.

Janet Fish 8:26
Yeah, well, then we don’t teach financial education in school. No, we don’t teach people how to. I mean, we don’t teach any of that. That’s not the focus, the focus of an education is to go get a job. Right. And then really teach that. Yeah, yeah. So being an entrepreneur, being a wealthy entrepreneur, we’re different. Talk about your experience of how those people are different in the things that they do, the way that they think the characteristics and traits that they have

Rennie Gabriel 9:01
Absolutely. And I want to first impress the importance of the subtle messages we get that it’s better to be poor. Because if people start examining fairy tales from that perspective, they’ll understand how they were programmed not to be wealthy. And I really think that’s the first step. I mean, look at the example of jack in the beanstalk. Here’s a little kid who claims to be a beanstalk and finds a rich man. So what does he do? He steals the eggs at the golden goose, the goose lays, he steals the goose that lays the golden eggs. And when the giant chases him down the beanstalk, he cuts it down and kills the giant.

The moral of the story is it’s okay to kill the rich if you’re poor.

Janet Fish 9:51
I never thought of it that way. But

Rennie Gabriel 9:54
that’s the Yes, that’s the actual message. But the but the more People are told is, well jack just took advantage of the opportunities presented. baloney he killed the rich to steal from him. Okay, so what I’m getting at is these are the underlying messages unless people wake up to that they can’t have that change in the mindset. So what’s the wealthy mindset? I just wrote a book called attitudes of the wealthy and I documented 32 attitudes that I came across. Okay. And one of them is that wealthy people ask questions, instead of making statements, like I talked about, pay yourself first. Okay, wealthy people do this. And the ordinary person might say, oh, I’ve heard of that. I know that or whatever. Wealthy people instead, when they hear familiar information, ask questions like, gee, where would that apply to me? Or when will I start doing That, or who could support me with that? Or what would that look like for me? I mean, the wealthy person ask questions when they hear familiar information. And that is really a crucial attitude. One of the ones that I had to get over was the idea that I had to do things by myself. I mean, I was a latchkey kid, so I didn’t really have parents around. really supporting anything that I thought about, I mean, you know, the kind of projects kids have in school, were, the parents help them and they get good grades. My parents had no interest in that. Okay. So up until my 40s, I believed I had to do it all by myself. And it wasn’t until I understood that the power comes in asking for help, that people are prepared to support you. And so I say constantly Now, wealth creation is a team sport, not a solo sport.

Janet Fish 12:05
And when I think about team, I think about people that we hire to do things. You’re not necessarily talking about that because you just talked about asking for help. So is there a differentiation there? Is there

Rennie Gabriel 12:18
completely? Absolutely.

Janet Fish 12:20
And what do you recommend a combination of the two?

Rennie Gabriel 12:24
Yeah, there are people you can hire like an accountant, like an attorney, you know, those are your team members, and you pay them. But what I’m talking about is people who have aligned interests in growing the business together. And I look back and found the successful businesses that I had, like the pension administration company, we sold to a public company. There were three of us that came together. The Art Gallery were operated by myself failed.

Janet Fish 12:53
So how do we, how do we find those So okay, I’m in business. I’m kind of a solo printer. Which a lot of people are Yeah. Is it joint venture part? Like how do you find those resources to make that help make your team from the networking that you do? Not isolating yourself? How do you like how do you identify who they are? And then where do you find them? Let me just,

Rennie Gabriel 13:20
okay. You may, the way you know, who they might be not necessarily who they are, depends on the area, you’re growing your business. If you’re growing a technology company, you will be networking with people who are in the technology space. If you’re going to be an angel investor or


a venture capitalist. You will network with people in that industry. You know, I mean, venture capitalists network with other venture capitalists plumbers network with other plumbers, online marketers network with other online marketers. A good example was Richard gurmann, who had the joint venture Insider’s community. And he had a partner when he started, grew that to a million dollar business. They had a Parting of the Ways. It’s irrelevant to soI. And the business did okay. After the the partner separated. I mean, he did well, comparatively to most people. But then he connected with a fella named Amman again. And now that partnership resulted in what literally was a million dollar, three day event. Not a million dollar a year business. Right. Okay. And how do they meet each other? Again, through the networking,

Janet Fish 14:48
yeah. So identify who they are, and then go out and find them and let the universe help find them. I mean, I’m a big proponent of be open to it in the universe.

Rennie Gabriel 14:57
Business. Yeah. It’s the business that you’re in. Like I said, If you’re a plumber, you can grow a fabulous plumbing business by finding out who you want Well, okay, let me go back a little bit to my angel investing days. What I discovered was that every successful business I’m talking about multi million or billion dollar businesses had two people involved at least two and one was labeled visionary. And the other was labeled execution master. Two different skills. You get two salespeople together, you get two visionaries, together, you get two engineers together, you get two execution masters together, you are not going to create a successful business. And so the visionary up examples, there’s a company you’ve probably heard of called Berkshire Hathaway. Right. You know, Warren Buffett.

A lot of people don’t know who Charlie Munger is.

And Charlie Munger is half of Berkshire Hathaway. He’s the execution master That’s the person in the background. When you had Apple computer, you had Steve Jobs as a visionary and Steve Wozniak as the execution master. Yeah. In SpaceX, you’ve got Elon Musk is a visionary. And I can’t think of her name Glenwood or something like that. Is the execution Master? Or is that with Tesla? Anyway,

Janet Fish 16:28
we get the point. It’s, it’s, it’s the combination of the two and it can’t have to have the same as that’s never going to get off the ground.

Rennie Gabriel 16:34
Exactly. But the two people with one with vision and the other who can execute will have a thriving business. And that’s because both of the major areas are taking place in terms of what needs What are needed. What is needed to have that business grow.

Janet Fish 16:51
Yeah. So I’m sure along the way, there have been some bumps and some ups and downs. Talk a little bit about some challenges that you’ve had. So you’ve gone along and, more importantly, how you overcame them, and how you work through it to get better on the other side.

Rennie Gabriel 17:08
Well, one of the things, the real estate business, which is the last truly successful business that I’m in that supports me, so I don’t have to work for a living. While I recognize I recognize things were doing well with that first purchase, when we remodeled it, and, you know, and I managed it and stuff like that. But what I also noticed was, the future would look bright. But there were challenges on a day to day basis. We were buying older buildings that needed to be remodeled and revamped so we could increase the rents, which also meant money was going out as rents were being paid. I mean, we could have a plumbing bill would wipe out our money our profits for the month. But they didn’t know that Yeah. didn’t stop us from moving forward and continuing to do what we were doing, because we knew the rents would rise. We knew that at some point, we could borrow back money from the increase in value of the buildings, so that we could make down payments on more buildings. We knew the tax laws favored what we’re doing, because we could do a tax deferred exchange, and not pay any profits on the capital gains and move it all into a larger building, which we did. But as we were getting started, I would say the first three years, there was virtually there was so little profit. It just it was almost irrelevant

Janet Fish 18:42
to What kept you going,

Rennie Gabriel 18:44
knowing that things were going to work out, knowing it in my heart and seeing it in terms of the increase in the values of the building. Because one of the lights the nice things I like about apartment buildings as opposed to rental Houses is the value of the building is a multiplication of the rents. If rents go up, the value of the building goes up. Pure and simple. Doesn’t matter what color the building is. Doesn’t matter. It’s got nice carpeting. If rents go up, the value of the building goes up. And the house Well, someone likes to color the paint terrific. If the economy is turning around too bad. We went through 2008 problems where people were losing their shirts in real estate. Without a hiccup, I think the biggest issue was, we might have gone six weeks before we were able to rent one vacancy. We had one vacancy, it took six weeks instead of one week. Yeah, that was the biggest hiccup because that was just

Janet Fish 19:51
the belief and knowing that it’s going to work.

Rennie Gabriel 19:54
Exactly. We weren’t over leveraged, we approached it intelligently

Janet Fish 20:00
And you had your team because you had a visionary and your execution execution.

Rennie Gabriel 20:05
Fast expert. Yes. And, and a part of the team there were the painters we use the same pager, we use the same handyman. We use the same roofer. We use the same plumber, we use the same cleaning crew. And, you know, so yeah, we paid them, but they were a very important part of our team.

Janet Fish 20:26
Yeah, I mean, I did fix and flips, but I did single family residences. And I had the same I mean, it took a while to get the the right team but once we got the right team, it’s it’s amazing because they’ll be there with you. Every every step of the way.

Rennie Gabriel 20:41
And when you said once we got there, so who else was on your team?

Janet Fish 20:45
I had another person who I had met through an organization that I was involved in at the time. Mm hmm. And she was I was the visionary and she was kind of the executioner. No

Rennie Gabriel 21:00
executions master versus execution or?

Janet Fish 21:05
Yeah, that didn’t work actually didn’t work out so well long term. But anyway, that’s a whole nother story.

Rennie Gabriel 21:09
You know,

Janet Fish 21:10
I mean, partners and learning how to partner up front and putting all the roles and responsibilities up front. And I mean, some work and some don’t. We’ve all experienced that.

Rennie Gabriel 21:19
Exactly. And in our real estate partnership, it lasted probably eight to 10 years before we decided we needed to separate ways as well.

Janet Fish 21:28
Yeah, I mean, it happens. So you, your cash that you live on comes from your real estate investments Got that? That’s correct. Then you’ve got this other area. That is your passion, which you give 100% of your proceeds to charity

Rennie Gabriel 21:49
pro profits not proceeds

Janet Fish 21:51
I’m sorry, okay, profits to tell me how that came to be. Like how Then how did you get from Patrick get there?

Rennie Gabriel 22:01
Well, I realized that parents can’t teach what they don’t know. You’ve mentioned teachers don’t teach this stuff. Well, they can’t teach what they’ve never learned. And what I found out is CPAs as a part of their training, do not learn how to do personal budgets or how to teach their clients how to do it. I’m certified as a financial planner, and it wasn’t in my coursework either. And I realized 90% of the population doesn’t have access to this information. And there’s a lot of pain when you don’t handle money effectively and you grow broke. And in my case, at one time, I had to click soda bottles and cans to get the refund money to buy food for my family. That’s just not a way to live because you lack the education on how to handle money. Okay, so after I solved it for myself, it only felt Proper real the right thing to do to teach it to other people. And so that’s what I’ve been doing the last six, seven years.

Janet Fish 23:08
And the wealth on

Rennie Gabriel 23:11
wealth on any income

Janet Fish 23:13
on any income. Is your second book. Correct?

Rennie Gabriel 23:16
Is my Yes. Is a second book out of the publishing company I created.

Janet Fish 23:20
And then what’s the first book? I want to talk about that a little bit?

Rennie Gabriel 23:22
Oh, yeah. The first book was called couples and money. And, you know, where do we get the money attitudes we have, not only from society and movies and stuff like that, but from our parents. Yeah. Our mom handled money, what her role was in the family regarding finances, or how our father handled money and what his role was in the family regarding finances, couples, divorce, more often over money than any other issue.

Janet Fish 23:56
I believe that

Rennie Gabriel 23:57
and I mean, statistically That’s what’s been documented. And so this book supports people in having safe conversations around money. And it doesn’t matter if it’s a husband and wife or people living together or same sex couples, until you find out what your family taught you.

It’s difficult to have a safe conversation about money.

Janet Fish 24:23
Yeah, it it’s it’s fascinating to me as I’ve coached people, not only on how to build how to make money, but also to invest it for wealth. We have a relationship with money and I didn’t really think of it that way until when I started coaching on it, but we do we all have a relationship with money. And we all have different relationships with money. So I just think that’s a that’s a fascinating concept. And I love the fact that you’re bringing that to people who we don’t get taught this anywhere. Yeah, so what brought you to shelter to soldiers?

Rennie Gabriel 25:07

Janet Fish 25:09
out there to soldiers?

Rennie Gabriel 25:10
What soldier sing your

Janet Fish 25:13
soldier shelter to soldier? Yes. What? How’d you find that particular? Obviously you’re a dog person.

Rennie Gabriel 25:22
Yes, supporting rescue dogs and my wife and I have had rescue dogs. Mm hmm. And she were both, you know philanthropic in our hearts. And she actually was the chairperson of a charitable foundation as a part of Berkshire Hathaway. And someone brought this charity to her attention. They were a couple three years old at the time. And my wife knew one of my causes was veteran charities, as well as animal charities that we both agree on. And she said, Randy, I think you’d appreciate This charity, they’re saving the lives of dogs and veterans.

And as I checked it out, and I

started meeting with

excuse me, the people involved

I just absolutely fell in love with it.

Shoot it, if I don’t get in touch with how I feel about it, I’m okay. But if I, I think about it, I, excuse me have a problem talking. Anyway, so she brought it to my attention. And I said, You know, I want to help. And as I started donating money to them, the more money I donated, the better I felt, um, to the point where my wife and I have donated probably close to $100,000 to this charity. And that means there are six people who are alive that might otherwise might not otherwise be alive. They’re six dogs that had a purpose in life and they’re fulfilling that purpose. So it was really giving more and more money to them.

That really

made me feel like I’m really doing something important. And you aren’t just teaching other people how to handle money.

Janet Fish 27:24
That’s a beautiful, beautiful story, sir. And obviously it touches your heart. What if someone was thinking about becoming an entrepreneur? What’s your best advice for them?

Rennie Gabriel 27:38
Well, obviously they need to study what entrepreneurs do. They need to really determine what’s going on. And that gets back to it doesn’t matter if it’s creating a business becoming an entrepreneur, becoming wealthy. It’s a team sport, not a solo sport. And it doesn’t matter if that team members your coach, if it’s your accountant, your attorney Your banker, it requires a team and probably one of the best people in the team as a coach, like the kind of work that you’re doing, because you’re able to hold them accountable to what they want to do. You’ve got the resources that they may lack. And that’s the first place to start. is making sure you have a partner and a coach.

Janet Fish 28:24
Yeah, I, I was a, I started out as a W two and then 2005 I joined an organization of entrepreneurs. And without that community, I don’t think I ever would have survived not becoming an entrepreneur, is it surrounding yourself with like minded people, it’s having the team, it’s having the accountability, but my advice would be to anyone who is thinking about starting a business is go find a whole bunch of entrepreneurs and successful ones are better to hang out with because it just makes all the difference in the world.

Rennie Gabriel 29:00
Yeah, I’m so glad you you suggested it the way you did, because a lot of people think that their family could support them being an entrepreneur. And it’s likely they’re a W two employee because their family members are w two employees. And that is not the place to go. If you want to be an employer, and one of the successful real estate entrepreneurs I know. I’ve take you know, I knew I was doing this before I met him. But he talks about how he talked to his dad about investing his real estate. And his dad absolutely said it is the stupidest, most dumb thing to do.

And that is coming from

Janet Fish 29:48
the same dad and my family. They’re all w twos and they don’t understand what I do and they think I’m nuts, but that’s okay with me.

Rennie Gabriel 29:55
Yeah, I was very blessed in that my mom had a sister who invested in apartment buildings? And she thought that made a lot of sense. And my mom worked as a clerk in a bakery and scrimped and saved and bought a rental property. And it and she ended up actually, at times loaning money to her sister in law to help when they were having shortfalls. You know, so it was kind of a mixed bag about investing in real estate. But my mom actually said to me, if you buy rental real estate, the tenants will buy the property for you.

Janet Fish 30:36
That’s That’s brilliant. That’s exactly right. And that’s great way to put it. Great way to put it.

Rennie Gabriel 30:42
Yeah, she told me that when I was eight years of age, and I didn’t actually get to really put it into practice till I was 50. But that message stayed with me. Yeah. All the way through.

Janet Fish 30:53
Yeah. If you can’t go wrong with Well, I will say you can’t go wrong with real estate long term. Right? Because We’ve all experienced, I mean, I would say, you know, 80% of my retirement money is in some form of real estate. So, I mean, it’s kind of kind of what we what we do. Is there anything that you can think about that if you went back you would do differently?

Rennie Gabriel 31:22
Yes. Because the first time I started paying myself first, I was in my 30s after reading the book, The Richest Man in Babylon. And then when I had a tax bill of $3,000, and I was only earning 3000 a month, 10 months, I had $3,000. That tax bill took away everything I’d saved over the last 10 months. Had I not attempted to be doing things by myself and I was letting other people in on my life some One could have said to me, yeah, Ronnie, yes, you lost the $3,000 to the IRS that you’ve been saving for 10 months. But if you hadn’t been saving it, you would have had to borrow it and pay interest on it. Don’t stop paying yourself first. Yeah. Which is what I had done. Yeah, another like eight to 10 years before I read the book again, and started again. Yeah.

Janet Fish 32:28
I love that. Because it’s really important to have that wealth account and start, and I don’t care how little you’re making in your business. You can always carve off sound to invest in yourself, as you say, to develop that. That wealth account.

Rennie Gabriel 32:45
Yeah, that mindset I call treat yourself. Like you deserve to own some of the money you’re working for.

Janet Fish 32:53
Yeah, yeah. And like I said, you’re gonna always find you can always carve something out.

Rennie Gabriel 32:58
Oh, absolutely. The way to put it doesn’t matter. If it’s one to 3% 10% That’s right, a difference where you start. Same thing as running a marathon. You don’t start to run marathons by running 26 miles. That’s enough to build up to it.

Janet Fish 33:12
Absolutely. That’s great. So what do you want your legacy to be ready?

Rennie Gabriel 33:17
What I want my legacy to be it, anyone who came into my circle, became philanthropic and helped cure the planet.

Janet Fish 33:27
That’s pretty good. I like that.

I really like that. Thank you. All right. So

how can people learn more about what you do about your charity? How can they get your book I believe the book is getting ready to be published, or is it just been published?

Rennie Gabriel 33:45
Um, I just have some galley proofs of the book, attitudes of the wealthy. I just got the ISB a number this week from someone we know so well. Susie pruden said wait a second. You had a book publishing company. You could still get those ESPN numbers. Just got it like a couple days ago.

Janet Fish 34:04
Okay, good. So what do you think it’s gonna be out?

Rennie Gabriel 34:07
Probably in a couple months. But you know what? I’m willing to provide galley proofs and book. And if someone actually goes to you, I’ve got a bunch of free business building tools. Alright,

Janet Fish 34:22
go to me the links and I’ll put them in the show notes so people can get access to them

Rennie Gabriel 34:26
both its wealth on any forward slash TEDx.

Janet Fish 34:32
Okay. All right, but I will definitely put the link down there and make sure that people have access to that.

Rennie Gabriel 34:38
Yeah. So they get a bunch of builders built business building tools for free. They’ll see my TEDx talk. And they can get a summary of my award winning best selling book called wealth on an income. And they’ll, you know, they’ll get an email from me they’ll have all my contact info,

Janet Fish 34:55
and all the proceeds all the profits from them all. That you do goes to shelter to soldier. That’s correct, which we love. All right, perfect. Any last words hit that you might have for us ready?

Rennie Gabriel 35:09
Um, yeah. It’s never too late to start on the road to wealth and it doesn’t matter how old you are. I was 50. And I’m sending out an email to my list about people who were 6070 and almost 80 or getting started on the road.

Janet Fish 35:30
Yeah. Never too late to start. I love that. Randy, thanks so much for spending some time with me this afternoon. It’s been great to reconnect with you.

Rennie Gabriel 35:36
Well, thank you, Janet. I’m so glad we reconnected.

Janet Fish 35:39
Me too. All right, you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. You too. Thank you for listening to the breakaway entrepreneur with Janet Fish. If you liked our show and want more check us out at www dot breakaway if you have any questions please please email me at coach at breakaway business coaching. com. I’ll answer questions in an upcoming podcast. Subscribe to make sure you get our next episode as soon as it’s available. Have a great day.

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